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Drivers weigh in the out-of-bounds rule....and ESPN is back on the hot seat again
Heading toward the white flag for the last lap of the Shootout: Ryan Newman, Denny Hamlin, Kurt Busch and Jamie McMurray. And drivers certainly know just where the out of bounds is....or do they? (Photo: Getty Images for NASCAR)
(Updated)
By Mike Mulhern
mikemulhern.net
Denny Hamlin, who passed leader Ryan Newman on the inside off the fourth turn the last lap of the Shootout, crossed the finish line first, but Hamlin was then penalized by NASCAR for a violation of the out-of-bounds rule. While Hamlin's initial move to pass was cleanly above the yellow line, and Hamlin was in fact ahead of Newman slightly at that point, when Newman made a nod toward moving low toward Hamlin, Hamlin went below the yellow line rather than run into Newman.
Hamlin was then penalized by NASCAR and scored at the tail end of the lead lap.
Hamlin argued the call, to no avail, pointing to similarities he says with a move Dale Earnhardt Jr. made at Talladega( about 1:20 here http://mysp.ac/dNvAM8 ) a few years back, in which NASCAR ruled Earnhardt was already in the lead when he went below the yellow line.
Now some here worry that NASCAR's Saturday night call may lead to a big crash in the 500 itself – much as NASCAR's similar penalty call at Talladega on Regan Smith in a duel with Tony Stewart led the next time around to the Carl Edwards-Brad Keselowski crash there.
Count McMurray among those here worried.
The controversial finish to the Shootout however raises the possibility of yet another controversial finish in the Daytona 500….similar to those hotly criticized finishes at Talladega.
And there are still questioned aspects about the specifics of the out-of-bounds rule, which isn't even written in the rulebook. Just what does it mean "to complete a pass." What does it mean "to pass." What does it mean "to advance your position."
McMurray: "I went to talk with NASCAR's John Darby and Mike Helton, about what happened to Denny Hamlin, and watched the replay.
"Denny was far enough ahead of Ryan that he didn't need to go below the yellow line. I think Denny could have held his ground there; I don't know if there would have been a wreck, that would have depended on Ryan.
"My perspective, if I'm Ryan – you know how far up a guy is on you. And I think Ryan knew Denny was far enough up along side that he wouldn't be able to push him down.
"I haven't talked with Denny but from what I saw it looked like Denny said 'I'm going to go down, because I'm far enough up along side that they know I wasn't forced down, and this way I just don't cause a wreck.'
"I think Denny thought he was still going to win the race and he just didn't want to cause the wreck.
"So I asked NASCAR 'I can see Denny's side of that – why cause a wreck when you don't have to?'
"I asked NASCAR 'Why didn't you guys just put Denny back to second or fourth, rather than penalize him to the end of the lead pack? Because when you do that (the heavy penalty), that just promotes the guy to go on and wreck him.'
"Darby said 'because that would have worked just fine on Saturday night, but if we have a green-white-checked (at the end of the 500) and there are 30-some cars coming across, where do you put him at then?'
"I said I see your point.
"And he said 'All you have to do, if you're Denny, in that position, is back off and let Ryan go, and you only lose that one spot.'
"But if it comes down to the Daytona 500, first off no one is going to go below the yellow line, because they've made that very clear….and you'll see the wreck. Or if you're Ryan, you just hope you can side-draft (and slow Hamlin) to the line.
"However I agree with Jeff that the yellow line rule is the greatest rule, 100 percent. I look back at some of the old footage, before they had that rule, they could go in the grass….and that just seems crazy to me.
"The yellow line rule is your friend: if you come off turn two and put your left side on the yellow line, you don't have to guard that side, you only have to look out the right side."
McMurray says he doesn't care for the idea that NASCAR could simply drop the yellow line rule for the last lap. "Because it would be the same thing, only six feet lower. And there's plenty of room to race to the right."
Burton's take:
"The only people that want to do away with the yellow line rule are people that never raced without the yellow line rule.
"The reason we have the yellow line rule is because we need a yellow line rule.
"I must confess when the yellow line rule was first floated I thought that was the stupidest thing I had ever heard in my life.
"After doing it for a race, I thought that is the greatest thing we've ever done.
"I'd like to say we shouldn't keep learning the same lesson over and over and over.
"The yellow line rule is there for a reason. Without the yellow line rule, trust me, it's five-wide getting into turn three, with people on the apron. It's people on the apron through the trioval. It's people on the apron getting into turn one.
"There's no value, no logic, other than pure bravado, to try to take the yellow line rule out. That theory would be along the same lines 'If football players didn't wear helmets it would be really cool, because we could see them bleed.' It would be that same logic."
Daytona is a heck of a lot narrower than Talladega. So on the last lap, where do you want to be? (Photo: Getty Images for NASCAR)
Meanwhile, ESPN may be on the hotseat again with NASCAR fans after Tuesday's TV show Pardon the Interruption. ESPN's Tony Kornheiser and Dan LeBatard of the Miami Herald appeared to question the integrity of this sport, hinting that there might have been more to Dale Earnhardt Jr. winning the pole for Sunday's Daytona 500:
The ESPN is supposed to be somewhat irreverent.
Here is the transcript of what the two said about NASCAR and Earnhardt:
LeBatard begins: "Since we are already questioning college football's integrity, why don't you start investigating NASCAR's too, Mr. Restrictor Plate.
"This is the 10th anniversary of Dale Earnhardt's death, ratings are down since. 200,000 fans will hold up three fingers in his honor at the Daytona 500 on Sunday. It just so happens that his son Dale Earnhardt Jr. has the pole position for that race. You believe the fix is in, don't you?"
To which Kornheiser replies: "Well, it's a great America moment isn't it, when Dale Earnhardt Jr. at Daytona can have the pole position. A guy who has not won a race in his last 93 starts.
"There are people in and around the NASCAR world -- not just drivers but people who cover the sport as well -- who are winking at this one….who are wondering if this wasn't a set-up….because it's the pole position, it's not winning the race.
"It's just getting on the pole, having the lead and bringing the viewers in. Dale Earnhardt Jr. is the most popular driver for the last seven or eight years and he can't win a race. This is a good set-up moment, is it not?"
And LeBatard: "But is it a great American moment, or is it professional wrestling?
"If you're going to lob this accusation out there...and, look, I've heard the comments where people say you let something go on the car and give a guy a certain advantage. I can't deny that Junior winning would be good for NASCAR."
And Kornheiser: "Every time he runs, if he wins, it's good for NASCAR, because he is the most popular guy out there, and they want to get the ratings back up.
"I think the suggestion here -- someone I talked to who covered auto racing for a lot of years -- said she believed there was a 60 percent chance that Junior qualified with a car not quite up to code and people looked the other way.
"There are no points involved, the other drivers don't get hurt, and running three good laps is not the same as running 500 miles. Everybody in NASCAR is going to feel good about this."
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Around the Horn also had this
Around the Horn also had this as one of their topics. The article originated here:
http://motorsports.fanhouse.com/2011/02/14/smells-like-nascars-cookin-up-storybook-win-for-dale-jr
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Just glad to see somebody put it in print. I know the article is somewhat speculative, but it confirms that we as fans aren't the only ones suspicious that NASCAR has done this in the past. Media members and even other drivers believe it happens. Fans want to know what they are watching is indeed real, that all the cars have been inspected with equal thoroughness, and that nobody is getting a pass on running non-spec equipment. Until Junior smoked the Nationwide field in the Wrangler car last year, getting "the call" did not seem to be as rampant as it was when France Jr. was running the show. NASCAR's integrity is always in question, but they always seem to act like the Wizard of Oz when their integrity is questioned and pass off the Wizard's famous line of "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain", as if the possibility of them manipulating the races does not exist. How about letting certain media members check the winner's car with independent technicians when the car enters postrace inspection? This would give NASCAR some instant credibility and help the public gain trust in them. Instead, they do their best to hide all aspects of the technical inspection process, which just leads to more suspicion and questions about NASCAR's integrity.
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Everyone thought Mark McGwire and Barry Bonds were hitting home runs because of their great skill at swinging the bat. Turns out they had a little helper or two that's use was illegal. MLB did nothing about it because the stories got killer TV ratings and lots of publicity. The comparison is similar with NASCAR in that many people believe that they allow certain cars fudge the rules to have a much better chance of winning. It benefitted NASCAR when Junior won because TV ratings and attendance climbed. Somebody they like needs a new sponsor? Out of the clear blue sky that team suddenly gets a win. The counter argument is that Junior has not won or been competitive in some time, so how could they be manipulating the races if he's not winning? As I said, I've not been as suspicious of it since the current regime assumed command. Junior has the best equipment money can by, and if he ain't winning the last three seasons it's because of the person behind the wheel. But again, anytime NASCAR wanted to help him out they could easily do it by overlooking something in the inspection line. Has it happened recently, who knows, but the point is that NASCAR fuels the fire of the specualtion instead of putting it out. Some people like staged events, like "professional" wrestling, but most people don't want to see something that they feel is scripted, if only partially. NASCAR can do wonders for their integrity and the trust of the fans in them if they wanted to, but they do just the opposite.
Burton is a liar. The yellow
Burton is a liar. The yellow line rule is NOT there because it is needed; it was put in to appease drivers because of the rumored park-out at Talladega in 2001 that never happened, and it remains to feed to lust for control of the racing the sanctioning body of today has. It was NEVER five abreast with people racing on the apron before this rule; he's been around racing long enough to know that excuse carries no factual weight. They never raced like that - the racers know what the apron of One is and they know what the apron of the trioval is - and never once was there a wreck because of racing below the yellow line - not in 1996 (see Earnhardt, Labonte, Schrader, etc. make pass after pass below the line in the 500), not later. His "logic" is utterly bogus.
Ever seen the 1979 finish?
Ever seen the 1979 finish? Cale went to the apron to pass. Donnie decided to run him on into the grass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXbHQtZH8dE&feature=related
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More recently, Junior goes below the yellow line in 2009 and then comes back above it to take out Vickers and half of the field.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oSE6APPCnQ
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Those were the two I remembered and could find easy in a 2 minute search. There are more. I have no problem with the yellow line being there and the actual rule, just the selective enforcement of it by NASCAR. As Mike said in his taped segment last Sunday, we need some black and white, written down rules so it's not open to NASCAR's interpretation to change it as they see fit for each occasion. Their integrity just looks all the more weak when they keep changing the way the rule is enforced.
Nascar can manipulate it as
Nascar can manipulate it as much as they want, but their manipulation doesn't work unless Jr is at the front of the field at the finish. If he's not, then this whole conspiracy theory is thrown out the window anyway. My feeling is, if he is towards the front, Nascar will throw some debris cautions etc to try and help the cause. It's not fixing, but it is manipulating the finish, which they pretty much already do anyway to try to manufacture excitement at the end.
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